[Debate] Yoshism

Mon Jun 18 12:23:18 BST 2012

What is imperialism, in your view?  And what is sub-imperialism?

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 4:25 AM, peter waterman
<peterwaterman1936 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am not quite sure which tea leaves, in whose tea cup, Yoshie has been
> reading.
>
> Nor whether she has ever read or heard of the concept of 'sub-imperialism'.
> Not one I would use myself, since it implies that Brazil, Russia, India and
> China are exercising their politically expansionist or merely
> economic-exploitative activities particularly on their 'near abroad'
> (Russia), on behalf of the supra-imperialists.
>
> I woud have rather thought it was in the nature of the state to centralise
> within its borders and expand (politically, economically, militarily,
> culturally) beyond. At least unless and until such marginal or peripheral
> entities were able to resist.
>
> So even Worker's Party Brazil continues to destroy its (and our) Amazon, to
> dominate economically in (parts of?) Paraguay and (parts of?) Bolivia, to
> invest in a Trans-Amazonian highway (not railway) through Peru so as to have
> access to the Pacific.
>
> [The above is impressionistic, I claim here only a newspaper knowledge. But
> reading news, particularly from 'alternative media', is surely better than
> reading tea-leaves].
>
> Pw
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 4:26 AM, Yoshie Furuhashi
> <critical.montages at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "First, do no harm."  BRIC seems better at it than most
>> self-identified "democrats," left, right, or center, when it comes to
>> international relations.  Too many "democrats" love encouraging other
>> people to fight to death for "democracy."
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Kate Doyle Griffiths-Dingani
>> <kategrif at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I'm intrigued---a social democracy for the era of global  authoritarian
>> > capitalism. social minus the democracy...
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sunday, June 17, 2012, Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
>> >>
>> >> If anyone is actually interested in the topic, yes.
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Dave Hollis
>> >> <david.hollis at netzwerkit.de>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> >> > Hash: SHA1
>> >> >
>> >> > Yoshie,
>> >> >
>> >> > Why not reply to the content instead of just sniping? I, for one,
>> >> > would be interested in a detailed reply to PW. Or is that too much to
>> >> > ask?
>> >> >
>> >> > Dave
>> >> >
>> >> > On 18.06.2012 00:18, Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
>> >> >> Happy to know that you are unable to identify me with any hitherto
>> >> >> existing school of Marxism but amazed to learn that you managed to
>> >> >> make a 293-word comment on my 172-word note.  Must be a slow day
>> >> >> for you.  ;-)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:21 PM, peter waterman
>> >> >> <peterwaterman1936 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> Peter sez:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I do not recall seeing this one on Debate, 2011, but I think it
>> >> >>> suggests the nature of Yoshism as a particular
>> >> >>> theoretical-ideological-ontological version of Marxism, by which
>> >> >>> I mean a seriously un-, not to say anti-, dialectical
>> >> >>> understanding of such.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> It comes from:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> http://montages.blogspot.nl/search?updated-max=2011-05-06T19:48:00-04:00
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> > I intersperse some comments in boldface (being myself somewhat
>> >> > boldfaced):
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Pax Sinica for the Beijing Consensus
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Theoretically,
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I think this means 'hypothetically'
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> China can pursue global Keynesian policy in addition to domestic
>> >> >>> Keynesian policy, which would go some way toward countering
>> >> >>> austerity in the US and Europe and be good for China as well as
>> >> >>> the rest of the world.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Is there any grounds for such a 'hypothesis'...or 'theory'?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> China says that "By the end of 2009, China had provided a total
>> >> >>> of 256.29 billion yuan in aid to foreign countries, including
>> >> >>> 106.2 billion yuan in grants, 76.54 billion yuan in interest-free
>> >> >>> loans and 73.55 billion yuan in concessional loans" (the figures
>> >> >>> are cumulative -- unfortunately no annual figure is given). For
>> >> >>> such a global Keynesian purpose, China should give away 5% of its
>> >> >>> GDP in grants.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I think here we would need to know the nature of Chinese 'aid'.
>> >> >>> In the same way as we need this in the case of the US, The
>> >> >>> Netherlands, Russia and Cuba.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Then, China would also have to learn to veto all Western wars, so
>> >> >>> that what it helps build won't get bombed. Pax Sinica based on
>> >> >>> the Beijing Consensus would be welcomed by the axis of resistance
>> >> >>> in the Middle East, North Africa, and Latin America; the rest of
>> >> >>> BRIC, Turkey, and South Africa; and anyone else who prefers peace
>> >> >>> for profit to war for power.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> OK, first we have advice to China (a fairly large country which
>> >> >>> must have a considerable army of its own carefully selected
>> >> >>> advisors), then we have an assumption about an 'axis of
>> >> >>> resistance'. This includes, for example, Latin America, where
>> >> >>> China is a major foreign investor (aid giver?) and ruthless
>> >> >>> employer (an issue possible not addressed by any consensus),
>> >> >>> which makes deals with States over the heads or behind the backs
>> >> >>> of the people and peoples.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Finally we have Yoshian realpolitik, based on some notion of
>> >> >>> profit that belongs, surely to bourgeois liberal political
>> >> >>> economy, rather than any notion of, for example, Ubuntu or Buen
>> >> >>> Vivir (Living Well).
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Oh. And is there an 'axis of resistance' effectively joining
>> >> >>> these very varied world regions and their even more varied
>> >> >>> nation-states? This might have briefly existed at the time of the
>> >> >>> Bandung or various Cuban 'axes of resistance' in the 1970s. But
>> >> >>> in so far as they were based on state-define--
>> >> Yoshie Furuhashi
>> >> <http://mrzine.org/>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Kate Doyle Griffiths Dingani
>> > 512-363-6484
>> > skype: katedgriffiths
>> > 777 St Marks Ave
>> > Brooklyn NY 11213
>> > kategrif at gmail.com
>> > KaGriffiths at bmcc.cuny.edu
>> >
>> >
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Yoshie Furuhashi
>> <http://mrzine.org/>
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>
>
>
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-- 
Yoshie Furuhashi
<http://mrzine.org/>