[Debate] Samuel Farber on Unions in Cuba

[peter waterman]

The Blackberry hath Spoken, in severely compressed terms, but not without
justice.

PW

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 7:42 AM, Neville Adams <nada01 at claranet.co.uk>wrote:

> Tosh!
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yoshie Furuhashi <critical.montages at gmail.com>
> Sender: debate-list-bounces at fahamu.org
> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 16:38:20
> To: Debate is a listserve that attempts to promote information and
> analyses of interest to the independent left in South and Southern Africa<
> debate-list at fahamu.org>
> Reply-To: Debate is a listserve that attempts to promote information and
>         analyses of interest to the independent left in South and
>         Southern Africa <debate-list at fahamu.org>
> Subject: Re: [Debate] Samuel Farber on Unions in Cuba
>
> A social revolution historically has been impossible without some form
> of "charismatic authority."  If the Cuban state survives long enough
> more or less in its present form, though, the "charismatic authority"
> of the first generation of revolutionary leadership will become
> routinized, giving rise to a different style of authority.
>
> BTW, authority is not the same thing as authoritarianism.  In
> rejecting the latter one shouldn't reject the former.  The question is
> whether the authority exercised by a leadership enjoys democratic
> legitimacy in the eyes of the majority.
>
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Riaz K Tayob <riaz.tayob at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > PW
> >
> > What should the relationship between unions and the state be?
> >
> > Do you understand the Is the issue about being adversarial as the
> > classic formulation to create the dictatorship of the proletariat? Is
> > your concern about automous spaces for self organisation?
> >
> >
> > Yoshie
> >
> > How do you see the continuity of power and the Castro hold on it? Are
> > you of the view that such "authoritarianism" may be necessary in the
> > face of the real threats of its neighbour or what?
> >
> > Riaz
> >
> > On 2012/07/10 10:57 PM, Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
> >> Why should trade unions necessarily be adversarial to the party and/or
> >> the state unless the party and/or the state are against their members?
> >>   E.g., are CTC, KKE, Zenroren, etc. worse trade unions than apolitical
> >> trade unions?
> >
> > Peter wrote
> >> whether
> >> >'socialism' is the appropriate term to apply to a country that after a
> half
> >> >century is ruled by members of the same family, by one party, and in
> which
> >> >there is one state-approved and state-organised organisation for
> workers,
> >> >for women, for children, etc, etc.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> Yoshie Furuhashi
> <http://mrzine.org/>
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*2. Blog:* http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman
*3. EBook 2011, 'Under, Against, Beyond - Essays 1980s-
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http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/under-against-beyond/
*4.* WorkingPaper *2012*: 'Emancipatory Labour
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