[Debate] (Fwd) Syrian solidarity: should that include 'intervention' (Pham Binh)

[Yoshie Furuhashi]

Anyone still supporting the Libyan & Syrian militiamen _at this late
date_, having seen their MO, seems to me to be a proponent of
knee-jerk pro-imperialism, putting a plus on them only because
imperialists put a plus there.

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:11 AM, peter waterman
<peterwaterman1936 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, Patrick, Stalin's international policies were rather more complex
> than those of Yoshie.
>
> For example, whilst the Soviet Union was officially identifying itself with
> the anti-fascist Spanish Republic during the Civil War and even sending
> military advisors, it was also providing it with World War I weapons and
> junk airplanes, and sending KGB agents to support the Communist Party.
> (Soviet military with Spanish experience sometimes ended up in the Gulag,
> and Spanish Communists exiled in the Communist countries became subordinated
> to whatever Soviet foreign policy required).
>
> On the other hand, as you will surely recall, whilst WWII was first
> characterised as an inter-imperialist war - wreaking massive damage to
> Western CPs and anti-fascist movements - once the Soviet Union was invaded
> (with ease due to Stalin having killed or imprisoned many of his generals,
> and having total trust in his new Nazi ally), Stalin happily sought an
> alliance with imperialist Britain, the US, France, and dubbed the war
> 'anti-fascist' once again.
>
> Yoshie does, however, forward a rhetorically revolutionary power politics,
> and does, indeed, turn the imperialist logic on its head. As Marx might have
> said, 'The point is not to reverse power-politics but to surpass it'.
>
> May I add that whilst I think Pham Binh's critique of rhetorical, knee-jerk
> anti-imperialism is spot on, I would like evidence for most of his
> assertions about the 'democratic' or 'revolutionary' nature of both the
> protest movements and the successor regime in Libya. What he has done,
> however, is to deploy a more dialectical reasoning to counter the
> simplistic, mechanical and reductionist logic of Yoshie.
>
> Let's hope that the exchange is inspired by this.
>
> Pw
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Patrick Bond <pbond at mail.ngo.za> wrote:
>>
>> On 7/4/2012 3:14 PM, Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
>> > Here's what Patrick's and Peter's "Libyan comrades"
>>
>> Never ever met a Libyan comrade or non-comrade, sorry!
>>
>> > (to use the term
>> > employed by "Pham Binh of Occupy Wall Street, Class War Camp" whose
>> > essay Patrick posted here with a note of approval)
>>
>> Once again, try reading the 'approval' part of the text, not some
>> imaginary idea between the lines. My approval was for the strategy of
>> solidarity with Syrians that Binh outlined.
>>
>> Until one has some sort of grounded commitment to the comrades fighting
>> in a particular location, what credibility do we have to to do advocacy
>> on anyone's behalf there (especially if it's a dictator)? I've asked
>> Yoshie about a half-dozen times who the forces are which she would have
>> us give solidarity to, in Libya or Syria or anywhere these complicated
>> situations arise... and am still awaiting an answer. At least Gilbert
>> Achcar could answer that, and was in close touch so knew how to
>> articulate the international standpoint of the people he supported.
>>
>> Until then, the trap Yoshie has fallen into is quite simple, and is
>> consistent with Stalin's approach to international politics: wherever
>> the West puts a +, she must put a -  ... and political thought ends there.
>>
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>
>
>
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-- 
Yoshie Furuhashi
<http://mrzine.org/>