[Debate] An imaginary trip to the land of the An thropoid Apes: RW Johnson’s racist outburst, apart heid nostalgia and other hysterics

[Riaz K Tayob]

Thanks Nevile.

Mine is a personal inquisition, because I see a pattern in lots of the 
discourse for ages - on the reform/radical spectrum, and issues of 
legitimacy, other may have others - and it is rather circular - with the 
contradictions often not being seen. (with my limited engagement on 
economic  justice issues, North of the Limpopo - issues are no less 
fraught, but these kinds of issues are handled in a more sophisticated 
way in much more trying circumstances.

So this is not about doing away with the dialogue, which must occur, but 
it is about getting to some of the _general_ notions that arise = so 
that the debate has relevance for us all, beyond the particularisms.

Race is certainly an issue. And white colonisation of representation, 
just like Party-Paid goons (ala Zuma at COP), are eminent topics of 
dialogue. Hence the questions to Mandisi. I hope people weigh in. But 
Heinrich asks us also to read his piece without the race issue (however 
else we may feel about its casting). Separating the wheat (substance, of 
his point, and he intended it to be read) from the chaff (racism or 
racially construed ones, or as it comes across). This is not about 
endorsing these views, but if a conservative/racist etc says something 
sensible, then should we shoot the messenger, or should we deny them the 
monopoly on the legitimacy to make those claims? In other words, even if 
all of what Mandisi says its true, objectively we have to assess whether 
the quality of social movements is adequate to the tasks they seek to do 
- and this need not be paternalistic, it can be in solidarity, with 
those terms mediated in a way that is emancipatory. This may point to 
work that needs to be done, before what is next, iow.

So to supplement your question with one in Heinrich's vein, are the 
movements that we see emerging demanding services etc. operating with a 
strategic agenda that fits in with broader conceptions of emancipation? 
And relatedly, what is the quality of these movements with regard to 
sustaining longer term agendas (irrespective of where it "originates" or 
is represented to originate)? This is quite a serious question, writ 
large, but with the failure of mass mobilisation on alternate platforms 
(i.e. the constant success of the Alliance, elections, factionalism that 
is not on economic policy as suchetc) it may be that there is something 
in the polity that we are missing. And this is serious. In no way does 
this issue, so abstracted from Heinrich's note, from the agency of the 
movements.

Riaz

On 2012/04/14 09:08 PM, Neville Adams wrote:
> Riaz
>
> Just a few points.
>
>   Admirable as it is that you should wish to play the honest broker, truth outcomes should result from a dialogous process, and in that process we should not try to sanitise or depolemicise the debate.  It never has been, or is about race relations - the other of non-racialism- a very liberal notion, it is about racism. But there is a wider issue which, from what I have been able to glean from the Debate contributions, and that is the elephant in the left public sphere in SA , one with a vest packed with  timer controlled explosives: and that is the inabilty to reconcile race other than that as something epiphenomenal.  Bohmke and Johnson's criticisms might have some validity and might even warrant taking on board if the way in which they do it was not so heavily mired in racial differentiation.
>
> There are other issues, but I think I would prefer to hear first from those directly involved in the frontline of the SM.  Are white academics colonising the representation?
>
> Neville
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Riaz K Tayob<riaz.tayob at gmail.com>
> Sender: debate-list-bounces at fahamu.org
> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 19:04:30
> To: Debate is a listserve that attempts to promote information and analyses of interest to the independent left in South and Southern Africa<debate-list at fahamu.org>
> Reply-To: Debate is a listserve that attempts to promote information and
> 	analyses of interest to the independent left in South and
> 	Southern Africa<debate-list at fahamu.org>
> Subject: Re: [Debate]
>   An imaginary trip to the land of the An
>   thropoid Apes: RW Johnson’s racist outburst, apart
>   heid nostalgia and other hysterics
>
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