[Debate] (Fwd) Review of Malema book in NY Rev of Books

Fri Apr 13 16:00:58 BST 2012

Ah, thanks!

From: debate-list-bounces at fahamu.org [mailto:debate-list-bounces at fahamu.org]
On Behalf Of Devan Pillay
Sent: 13 April 2012 04:01 PM
To: Debate is a listserve that attempts to promote information and analyses
of interest to the independent left in South and Southern Africa
Subject: Re: [Debate] (Fwd) Review of Malema book in NY Rev of Books

:-)

Its the generic "book club", Mandy....such as the one I belong to or the
various academic/intellectual spaces where things get discussed as an
intellectual exercise (which is important in and of itself....but needs to
have political impact).

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Mandi Smallhorne <mandiwrite at icon.co.za>
wrote:

Forgive my ignorance - what is the book club?

From: debate-list-bounces at fahamu.org [mailto:debate-list-bounces at fahamu.org]
On Behalf Of Riaz K Tayob
Sent: 13 April 2012 10:17 AM
To: debate-list at fahamu.org

Subject: Re: [Debate] (Fwd) Review of Malema book in NY Rev of Books

Responses below.

On 2012/04/13 09:01 AM, Devan Pillay wrote: 

Riaz 

I see what you're getting at but fear that you are lumping together radical
democrats with  the Dominic Tweedies (and in more nuanced fashion Jeremy
Cronins), who are happy to trash our liberal-democratic  Constitutional
order in favour of a vaguely defined "peoples democracy" 

Correctly pointed out... and noted.

Substantive Democracy - as defined for example by Rick Turner in the 1970s,
or EO Wright in Real Utopias (or for that matter the progressive faction in
the CPIM, Kerala)  INCLUDES in its definition liberal-democratic freedoms,
but extends and deepens this to include broader socio-economic freedoms, and
maximum participation and accountability (as embodied in Cosatu's social
movement unionism of the 1980s.)

We are ad idem. In addition to the formal, we need clear substance,
especially in the economics, even if it is instrumentalist... and tactical
(as is R2K, which is not partialism, but a circumstance not of our making
and possibly of our undoing, so it is necessary even at the risk of
partialism...)

I agree though that the SACP have muddied the waters on this, as they join
forces with the securocrats in the drive to build a Chinese style
'developmental state'.  Where does Davies stand on this?  Is he going to
keep quiet as long as he gets to implement his industrial strategy?

This is a very difficult consideration, on which we may well differ - but
not because of lack of values convergence. I think it is prudent for Davies
to keep mum - and keep the eye on the developmental prize - and leave this
battle to the commentariat as he does have a plan which is people-centred.
It is difficult for anyone person to be everything to everyone, and this is
where holism needs to be deployed. As a cog in the wheel one can see Davies
role as functional to tactically good economics, or a waiting on carrion. On
the other hand, when the whole of the left is considered, he represents a
major/minor feature in the non-neoliberal camp. As we can see that shallow
considerations drive the factionalism of the democracy within the ANC. A
holistic approach would be to cajole players to render players like Davies
outside of the petty games - i.e. this is important and needs to be done,
irrespective of how is in charge. Collective action and unity does come at a
price - and like not all have to pay it, it will not do to leave the likes
of Patel and Davies hanging to the vagaries of factionalism. This position
would make for a more coherent whole (for the left) especially if there are
DLF or intellectuals like yourselves who continue to hold them to account on
general issues (of r2k) AS WELL as on specific issues (economics).

But it is surely not empty to demand a more substantive democracy, I think
you agree.  

I do. But I really feel we need to avoid the simplistic framing of the
choices we face. Formal, substantive and instrumentalist notions make the
understanding the right ensemble for analysis.

And yes, full spectrum engagement is cool....... 

Not cool, necessary. As you indicate, the challenges are enormous and all of
us would like to move political work to a deeper level on "vanguard" action
instead of the chaotic rearguard retreat that objectively the left is in at
the moment as the most Fanonian of pitfalls plays all almost to script. 

but be careful of abandoning the vision of an emancipatory future to the
Book Club (or the bold rhetorical flush), 

I am adequately chastised - but it is a bit of a habit so pound away if it
reveals itself : )

I do mean it about managing contradictions, and being in two places at once,
and encouraging that wonderful spirit of unity that even liberals rarely use
nowadays, I disagree with what you say, but will defend your right to say
it... 

while we pour all our energies into the here and now of Partialism....

Like there is no clear definition of the progressive Organic Intellectual,
or formula in "what is to be done", these are not simple matters...
complexity needs to be embraced... that is the fullness of concern not just
for one's position but the movement as a whole... a different kind of
idealism from yours, but idealistic, I submit, nonetheless... 

and in the process give Supreme Legitimacy to the essence of the status quo.

This is why it is important for tactics and strategy to adjust so that we do
have full spectrum engagement. How many of our fights are about radical and
reform positions? We need to move the discussions to the relationship
between the two - in full dialectical contradiction. First law is that
antagonism leads change. Second law, which in the paradox of participation
is relevant, is that quantitative change can lead to qualitative change...
So we really need to think about the left as a whole. And on the reformist
front, we are really missing a flank... and the breach is internal as well
as external as you point out... the centre cannot hold, and further vice is
more likely than an emancipatory position... 

As a whole, we need an appreciation of the importance of the book club as
well as peoples self determined needs, as well as the creation of a moral
and ethical pole to which the pedagogy of the oppressed can gravitate... It
is difficult for me to see why the left has does not appreciate the extreme
structural violence that is seeded in the reformist front, and that
reformists get attacked in the short and medium term while the strategic
positions are developed have a longer term function.. really, one can have a
left that both supports Davies while fractures keep him on his toes when he
gets out of line... that is holism for me... 

This, I fear, is where Cosatu stands at the moment.  It needs to break out
of this stranglehold.  How can we help it to do so?  That, for me, is the
political question of the moment.

Cosatu may or may not break out of the stranglehold. But is there a strategy
for it here and now IN ADDITION to a strategy to help it break out? Could
not the deployment of a clear position on tactics actually lead to the
"obvious" conclusion that it needs to break out of the stranglehold (as if
reasons enough have not been piled up)?  But what flows from this is not
clear, and a holistic account needs to be prepared for this.... and COSATU
too is in objective difficulty - witness some discontent with Patel on the
NGP or the textiles investment scandal... its investment funds are in
intimate association with disciplining threats to profits... COSATU is the
embodiment of the contradictions that are faced... is it capable of
vanguardist is the question that needs to be addressed... but that is a
matter that is a process rather than outcome since it can be vanguardist (as
it has on many issues) but perhaps not enough... 

comradely,

Devan

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Riaz K Tayob <riaz.tayob at gmail.com> wrote:

What is empty for me, is not recognising that formal (shallow) democracy is
essential to substantial democracy, as this gets caught in the cross fire of
division of "preference" of economic and social rights over civil and
political rights - full spectrum engagement...  

Appeals, from the level of abstraction in the discussion, need to avoid this
spurious definition because it is the concrete circumstances that determine
the approach we take: for instance the brilliant right to know campaign is a
classical case of civil and political rights claims (essentially formal)
with the backdrop that these are essential to achieving more substantive
participation...

And further, the point about is that the claim of we want "real" democracy
is often (not always) used as either an excuse to fight formal democracy, or
as fill in to criticise lack of victories on substantive issues that fail in
the democratic process... here I prefer the framing of emancipatory
democracy that is functional (or if you like instrumentalist) to
emancipation (political as well as economic - holistic )... in other words,
it allows me (and this may not be relevant to others) to deal with China and
Zim (where the former has a plan for development sans democracy, while the
latter does not but is none the less smart at maintaining power and not an
idiot as if often made out)... 

On 2012/04/11 01:16 PM, Neville Adams wrote: 

Quick question - what's empty about valorising substantive democracy above
shallow democracy?

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