[Debate] Juan Cole on DN!: "Libya Has Reignited the Flame ofLiberty in the Arab World"

Tue Aug 23 15:23:08 BST 2011

So, all you are doing is to "sit and observe," "neither condemn nor
cheer."  As you must realize, that doesn't offer any "alternative
scenario to support the people of Libya (and Syria, by the way)"
either.  Is it only anti-imperialists who are called upon to present
an "alternative scenario"?  Why not a ceasefire and elections?

Besides, why are only Libyans and Syrians in need of foreign
supporters?  Why not Bahrain and Yemen, for instance, where leftists
are, by the way, far more organized and involved in the uprisings than
in Libya and Syria?

On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Devan Pillay <Devan.Pillay at wits.ac.za> wrote:
>
> My preferred stance is to sit and observe – neither condemn nor cheer.....its too messy for either (and we need to see what the true outcomes will be).  However, I do get worried when some among the Left are spewing “anti-imperialist” venom when they offer no alternative scenario to support the people of Libya (and Syria, by the way).  So in my book they are in essence supporting these brutal regimes (saying in effect its better them than the “imperialists” – leaving the people with no agency).  Many on the democratic Left, I am happy to say, disagree.....
>
>
>
> From: Riaz K Tayob [mailto:riaz.tayob at gmail.com]
> Sent: 23 August 2011 10:46 AM
> To: Debate is a listserve that attempts to promote information and analyses ofinterest to the independent left in South and Southern Africa
>
> Subject: Re: [Debate] Juan Cole on DN!: "Libya Has Reignited the Flame ofLiberty in the Arab World"
>
>
>
> The neohumanitarians have relied upon the uniqueness of the Libya situation to advance their case for intervention. This is difficult to contest and it remains to be seen if principles for intervention are developed. In other words, is the a case for intervention in scenarios that do not suit the proclivities of the North.
>
> And making the case is certainly different from sustaining the case. The rebels/TNC are perhaps the reality now (Saif parades cast some doubt) and the initial case made by the likes Achcar will need to be looked. What safeguards were demanded to be put in place... as far as I recall felicity to the UNSC (but even that was not accepted). Let us see if they are strident about non-interference in the affairs of the Libyan people or if it is time for "payback". Perhaps the bill is in the mail already.
>
> Neohumanitarians certainly have their work cut out for them and let us hope things are peaceful and amicably resolved with classical self determination. Perhaps the next unique situation will arise sooner than we think... and we can see what lessons neohumanitarians have learnt.
>
> And let us hope that the anti-Libyan interventionists were wrong!
>
> On 2011/08/23 11:36 AM, grinker at mweb.co.za wrote:
>
> "Anything is better.." - by this I assume you mean NATO's brutal intervention and the likely reimposition of the West's domination in Libya? If the Iraq model of humanitarian intervention is anything to go by, the situation in Libya could in fact still end up a lot worse than even under Gadaffi.
>
> It seems that for some on this list, having long since given up any hope of a truly democratic emancipatory project, reliance on the imperial master to free Africa is effectively the last resort.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Devan.Pillay at wits.ac.za
> Sent:2011-08-23 10:05:19
> To: debate-list at fahamu.org
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [Debate] Juan Cole on DN!: "Libya Has Reignited the Flame ofLiberty in the Arab World"
>
> " IMHO, Libya is
> threatening to transform the the drama of Arab revolt into an Arab
> farce."
>
> Maybe - but these bastard dictators have been messing around with our people for far too long.....anything is better, at least it opens up a space for renewal and the possibility of democracy.
>
> If we're on the Left we must be clear:  dictators ARE NOT, AND MUST NEVER BE, OUR FRIENDS!!!!!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yoshie Furuhashi [mailto:critical.montages at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tue 23/08/2011 05:59
> To: Debate
> Subject: [Debate] Juan Cole on DN!: "Libya Has Reignited the Flame of Liberty in the Arab World"
>
> Meanwhile, on Amy Goodman's DemocracyNow! (at
> <http://www.democracynow.org/2011/8/22/libya_has_reignited_the_flame_of>),
> Juan Cole said today, "Well, Libya, in a way, has reignited the flame
> of liberty in the Arab world. It's given new hope, a new charge to
> people in Cairo, in Tunis, and certainly in Syria."  IMHO, Libya is
> threatening to transform the the drama of Arab revolt into an Arab
> farce.
> --
> Yoshie Furuhashi
> <http://mrzine.org/>
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--
Yoshie Furuhashi
<http://mrzine.org/>