[DEBATE] : Vodacom megascam

Mon May 18 12:50:29 BST 2009

Your points are of course valid but, to an extent, the battle is lost.
Telkom (and its predecessors) were incapable of delivering to the poor, at
least for any length of time --- Patrick is probably the guy with the stats
on cut-off rates. The cellular providers [insert rant about regressive
nature of services, particularly pay-as-you-go here] succeeded in connecting
the poor (at least in urban areas) at far higher rates than Telkom ever
aspired to. Telkom has with its latest act effectively removing itself from
the game.
2009/5/18 <grinker at mweb.co.za>

> While there is no doubt a big element of resentment at Smuts and his
> cronies getting away with the loot, the delivery issues are very real. If
> Telkom does disappear who do you expect to deliver on a modern telecoms
> infrastructure that with allow us to keep up? Surely not some mythical 'free
> market' solution, adherence to which merely served to turn Telkom into the
> kind of incompetent under-capitalised, 'lean mean' disaster it has become.
>
>
>
>
> From: gus.gosling at gmail.com
> Sent:2009-05-18 10:28:17
> To: debate at debate.kabissa.org
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [DEBATE] : Vodacom megascam
> Dominic,
>
> The true motivation for your (and COSATU's) outrage is revealed in your
> whine on COPErs. Rian Malan (I think?) pointed out that most of current SA
> politics becomes clear when your view all the fighties-and-bities as being
> conflicts between rival business groups. Your comment was, inadvertently,
> most revealing.
>
> As for the law: find someone to explain Murphey's comment to you ---
> commercial law is heartless. (The costs award, btw, is significant here)
>
> Telkom: Know what schadenfreude means tweedie? Telkom has done such a
> sterling job on landline provision so far. Let's give them anotehr fifteen
> years to arse it up. Their business is dead, though they haven't figured
> that out yet.
>
>
> 2009/5/18 Dominic Tweedie
>
> > You are arse-backwards as usual, Gosling. Here is what the Muphrey said,
> > for
> > at least the second time (from Business Report):
> >
> > "The judge said the original application to stop the deal might have
> > succeeded because Icasa and Cosatu had a good argument but the damages
> done
> > to South Africans were outweighed by the financial benefits and as such
> the
> > court could not accept the application."
> >
> > Further, collapse of Telkom may sound good to you but not to thousands of
> > families that rely on a wage from there.
> >
> > Further, Telkom is still by far the best and most stable bulk carrier.
> > Wireless is still and will always only be the carrier for the last mile.
> > You
> > are foolish in so many ways, Gosling. You are wasting time.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2009/5/18 Gus Gosling
> >
> > > Dominic,
> > > Is your take on Murphey's judgement based on your deep knowledge of
> South
> > > African law?
> > >
> > > BTW, your know-nothing understanding of the law aside, COSATU's
> analysis
> > of
> > > the situation is mostly correct. The sale is an absolute disaster
> > (though,
> > > I'll allow myself a bit of schadenfreude --- it will kill off the beast
> > > that
> > > is Telkom once and for all. How I shall mourn.).
> > >
> > > 2009/5/18 Dominic Tweedie
> > >
> > > > 'Muphrey's is not a judgement of law, but only "analysis". This judge
> > > > has left his legal training out of it, and opted to elect and to
> > > > deploy himself as an "analyst" or an "economist". Murphey's law is
> > > > anything but law. It is only the lowest common denominator of the
> > > > fickle mass-media pundits. We all know how shallow are such
> > > > judgements, how unreliable they are, and how foolish it is to stake
> > > > anything at all on them, let alone tens of billions of rands and the
> > > > country's communications system.'
> > > >
> > > > The above is a slightly abridged version of a post I made to Ray
> > > > Hartley's "Wild Frontier" blog, which is his editorial in today's
> > > > Johannesburg "Times". It has not gone through yet. I don't know why,
> > > > but another of mine did go through and one of a Tebogo guy which is
> > > > what I was picking up on. If anyone else wants to get stuck in on
> this
> > > > Times blog, the URL is:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://blogs.thetimes.co.za/hartley/2009/05/17/vodacom-deal-fiasco-challenges-zumas-financial-team/
> > > >
> > > > For overseas debaters, the Johannesburg Times posts all its articles
> > > > with Comments facilities underneath. Very "progressive" as they say,
> > > > even if the paper's politics are otherwise of the most reactionary
> > > > possible kind.
> > > >
> > > > It's a good place to practice tangling with the bourgeois rabble.
> > > >
> > > > Ray Hartley's editorial is false in at least two other ways. It casts
> > > > the COSATU/ICASA action as a sudden last-minute surprise with no
> > > > motivation, therefore suspected of being "politically motivated".
> This
> > > > spin is only possible because Ray has blanked out the Communication
> > > > Workers Union's previous court action, which failed, leading to the
> > > > federation taking up the case and arguing it on the public
> > > > consultation grounds.
> > > >
> > > > The other thing that Hartley blanks out is the unearned R 6 000 000
> > > > 000 (yes, that's six billion) going to a bunch of people who happen
> to
> > > > be the Polokwane losers and core leaders of COPE. Peter Bruce, editor
> > > > of the Business Day, mentions this in his "Thick End of the Wedge"
> > > > column this morning. Naturally he frames the story as an attack by
> the
> > > > Zuma-ites of COPE, as opposed to a raid by the COPE crowd on the
> > > > people of South Africa.
> > > >
> > > > The class struggle continues in new conditions!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Domza "Aux armes!" VC
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > --
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