[DEBATE] : Joburg situation

[grinker at mweb.co.za]

Inkatha has been in decline for years now, unable to remain influential even in its own traditional heartland. How is it that they're suddenly able to cause widespread havoc in a variety of locations? The lack of conscious/organised opposition to these provocations and xenophobia is also a worry.


 




 

I'm not expressing myself in favour of this activity - if that's what you assume - and I understand that these explosions can't achieve anything apart from being destructive and damaging, ultimately resulting only in more oppressive policing. But like it or not, it is possible to cause a lot of havoc without any coherent outlook apart from anger and demoralisation. 


 




 

I've no idea what 'bloviating' is, but what I described has been raised by various people in the media. Given the current uncertain and directionless state of a lame duck government, all this potentially adds up to a dangerous mixture. I agree that we want facts, not rumours or conspiracy theories (your own dark hints haven't exactly helped here). There seems to be no clear leadership on how to deal with the situation at a time of growing rumours of impending chaos. 


 




 




 

-----Original Message-----
From: debate-bounces at debate.kabissa.org [mailto:debate-bounces at debate.kabissa.org] On Behalf Of Dominic Tweedie
Sent: 18 May 2008 08:00 PM
To: debate: SA discussion list
Subject: Re: [DEBATE] : Joburg situation


 




 

Dear Russell,


 




 

Inkatha never went away. It never went away from KwaMadala Hostel for sure.


 




 

It staged a set of simultaneous marches in different parts of Gauteng a few


 

months ago as "a show of force" and a drill.


 




 

Gatsha Buthelezi has made the obligatory prior "eruption" and there is


 

another current IFP "eruption" about history books.


 




 

You seem to think that something like this requires an enormous number of


 

people. What it actually needs is the kind of induna and call-up system that


 

the IFP has, and that no-one else has, plus a little money, liquor


 

and dagga, and the promise of loot.


 




 

The rest of this contrib of yours is not good. For example, "legitimacy is


 

increasingly in question in many places but not from any coherent political


 

standpoint" is a tautology. To question legitimacy requires a coherent


 

standpoint, obviously. Simply to riot means that after the riot things will


 

default back to the prior state institutions. The state will just wait you


 

out. We know that, from our own side.


 




 

Then there is: "Fears are now being expressed that the whole thing could


 

become generalised in various large cities". This is passive-voice hysteria


 

of the bloviating kind, IMHO. We have to have the facts here, and the


 

subjects. Bugger the DA.


 




 

Domza.


 




 




 

2008/5/18 grinker at mweb.co.za <grinker at mweb.co.za>:


 




 

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> ETV 7pm News has just showed widespread looting and disorder in Joburg CBD,


 

> municipal cops losing control in Rabie Ridge. The mobs do strongly resemble


 

> Inkatha mobs of old but where does Inkatha's sudden resurgence come from if


 

> it is them? I suspect that we're missing something important in what's going


 

> on. Fears are now being expressed that the whole thing could become


 

> generalised in various large cities and the DA and other opposition parties


 

> are calling for the army to be used. Mbeki is talking about certain un-named


 

> individuals maybe being responsible. It seems that state legitimacy is


 

> increasingly in question in many places but not from any coherent political


 

> standpoint.


 

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