[DEBATE] : Re: Debate ?

[Patrick Bond]

Hi comrade, in this case there is *no* moderation. Simply a rule that no 
attachments are allowed, which I assume is the problem on both. I 
actually do *zero* moderating of debate-list. If you put the info into 
.txt format or just cut and paste it in, there's no problem. I'll be 
happy to send this info (as I also have a stake in it!). And we are also 
just getting our act together for the reimbursement on the Cacim WSF 
book, but I probably need the full info sent again as I've had two 
recent laptop crash-and-burns.
Sorry!
Cheers,
Patrick

Jai Sen wrote:
> Tuesday, November 13, 2007
>  
>  
> Patrick, hi
>  
>             I am writing to gently complain about excessive zeal in 
> the way Debate is moderated, and about what seem to me to be 
> inappropriate rules and, maybe also, ways of functioning.
>  
>             On September 5, I tried posting a message as follows :
>  
>
> Wednesday, September 5, 2007
>
>  
>
> Here’s the flier for a new book :
>
> Mikael Löfgren & Håkan Thörn, 2007 – ‘Global Civil Society – More Or 
> Less Democracy?’, special issue of /Development Dialogue/
>
>  
>
> This comes out of a seminar at the Nairobi Forum.  As you will see, it 
> contains reflective essays both on global civil society more generally 
> and also on the World Social Forum.
>
>  
>
> It’s free !  Order copies at the eddress given….  See the blurb at the 
> end for conditions.
>
> [snip]
>  
>             It didn’t appear.
>  
>             Today, I have tried posting several messages about the 
> situation at Nandigram here in India, in the left front ruled state of 
> West Bengal (where there is heavy state and party-sponsored violence 
> and also heavy resistance going on, and where a wide front of 
> solidarity is opening up across the country).  There are many here who 
> regard this as perhaps being / becoming a very significant point.
>  
> From http://o3.indiatimes.com/Nandigram :
> Moushumi refuses award
>  
> KOLKATA, Nov. 11: Renowned actress Moushumi Chatterjee refused a 
> Lifetime Achievement award that was to be conferred upon her tomorrow 
> by a well-known Bengali publishing house, as she said she could not 
> find it in her heart to accept an award or celebrate anything at a 
> time when heinous atrocities are taking place in Nandigram. The 
> actress, who fought the Lok Sabha elections from a Kolkata 
> constituency in 2004 on a Congress ticket but lost, strongly 
> criticised "powerful people in Bengal who have not been able to 
> resolve the terrible crisis that has been continuing in Nandigram for 
> the past 10 months". Chatterjee said from Mumbai: "It is shameful for 
> everyone in West Bengal that the situation in Nandigram has been 
> continuing for so long, and that atrocities are still happening there. 
> In this situation, while people like you and me are dying in 
> Nandigram, I do not think anyone with the smallest amount of 
> sensibility can celebrate or take part in a festival. One cannot, 
> after all, prepare for festivities when one’s home is going through a 
> crisis. Whether it is the film festival, or any other festival, I 
> cannot see how anyone can participate in them while Nandigram burns."
>  
> Cracks widen in Left
>  
> Statesman News Service
> KOLKATA, Nov. 11: Exploding the illusion of Left unity, the Left Front 
> junior partners ~ RSP, Forward Bloc and the CPI ~ today held the CPI-M 
> "solely responsible" for the fresh blood-letting at Nandigram. Never 
> before during the past three decades of LF rule has the CPI-M been put 
> on the dock by its junior partners in such unambiguous terms.
> After the Governor indicted the Marxists’ naked aggression at 
> Nandigram in their bid to wrest villages from the control of Trinamul 
> Congress and BUPC, the LF junior partners’ resolution, adopted at an 
> emergency meeting, completely isolated the CPI-M in state politics.
> The pithily-worded resolution dealt such a stunning blow to the CPI-M 
> that the latter immediately reacted by saying that it always had to 
> bear the brunt of "attacks" from its adversaries.
> [snip]
>  
>             I have therefore thought that what is happening at 
> Nandigram, and in West Bengal, and in India, is something the many on 
> Debate would definitely want to know about.  (Just as Peter Waterman 
> recently posted something on the land march here.)  I therefore first 
> checked back on this list and, as far as I could see, did not find 
> anything on it.  So since in my judgement, this is a crucial moment 
> (where the assault is deepening, and the resistance, and the 
> solidarity, is opening up) I decided, for the moment, to quickly post 
> some information.
>  
>             I do not know the reasons why my messages have not 
> appeared, but there seem to be two possibilities.  One is that I sent 
> the September 5 message, and the first three of today’s messages, 
> simultaneously to both Debate and the Social Movements list.  From a 
> message today on Debate, where you have commented on a message saying 
> that you don’t normally allow such messages on, it seems that you 
> monitor and moderate every message.  (a) While moderation is a tough 
> job, this seems to me to be excessive (and a huge load on you); and 
> (b) I would assume that this – my posting simultaneously on two lists 
> - is the reason that you have not allowed them / they have been 
> disallowed.  I again think that this is excessive zeal.
>  
>             The second possibility is that you do not approve of the 
> content, or of the kind of message I am posting.  The first was an 
> announcement, and the second (a set) information and solidarity messages.
>  
>             I am not sure what to think about this – and I speak here 
> as someone involved with administering listserves - whether it is the 
> appropriate role for moderators to be deciding such things.
>  
>             It also bothers me to think that things that essentially 
> fall into this category, but that are happening in South Africa, 
> appear all the time on Debate.  Does this mean that Debate is 
> essentially a South African list ?  Or where the boundaries are 
> defined by those who moderate ?
>  
>             (There is also the slightly different question of time 
> zones.  If indeed you have to moderate everything, this presumably 
> means that messages only get posted when you are awake (and at your 
> machine).  In a list such as Debate, this lack of instantaneity is 
> perhaps okay, but just slightly archaic…  Nevertheless, after writing 
> this message this morning my time, I waited until other messages 
> started appearing on the list, and then some more, to see if this was 
> the reason for mine not coming. Unfortunately, not so.)
>  
>             I know you work under pressure, but if these are your 
> reasons (you want Debate to be exclusive), then (a) I think you should 
> make this pubic, because most people tend to think that lists are 
> ‘open’, relatively speaking at least; and (b) I think you have to 
> understand that many of us also work under pressure, and that it is 
> difficult to find time to always separately post on Debate.  The 
> result is that I sometimes / quite often just do not get to post on 
> Debate what I have felt might be useful to post / things and views 
> that I think people on the list would be interested in knowing about.
>  
>
> Beyond this, these two particular lists have, as far as I know, 
> somewhat different constituencies.  It is therefore legitimate to post 
> on both.  I think you / Debate should allow such ‘double postings’.  
> Maybe you could expand your rules to allow, at the maximum, double 
> postings.  I request you, and the powers that be on Debate, to change 
> your rules.
>
>  
>
> I do hope you will allow this message to appear !
>
>  
>
>  
>
>             JS
>  
> PS : Oops !  I now happened to glance at some other messages on 
> Debate, and I see there that they are indeed posted on more than one 
> list, and even to several eddresses…  so this is clearly not your 
> policy.  So then – what is governing ?!
>  
>
>  
>
> ______________________________
>
> Jai Sen
> jai.sen at cacim.ne <mailto:jai.sen at cacim.ne>t
> CACIM, A-3 Defence Colony, New Delhi 110 024, India
> www.cacim.net
> Ph : +91-11-4155 1521, 2433 2451
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