[DEBATE] : Re: (Fwd) Cosatu not impressed with 'developmental state'

[Peter Waterman]

No, no, Dear Grinker, no wrath or derision.

1. I am just wondering to which present or future bloody conflicts you 
imagine this to imply;

2. Whether you consider it applies to the struggle against Apartheid;

3. Whether it is not possible that the working class is not capable of 
wavering;

4. Whether the petty-bourgeoisie (however you might define them) might not 
be also capable of 'proletarian' behaviour;

In other words, it is an archaic rhetorical declaration of faith in a 
working class (given revolutionary capacities by the Marxist intellectuals), 
that no longer can rest of 19th century expectations, and that therefore is 
an obstacle to the confrontation of 21st century realities and 
possibilities.

This is class-determinism of a simplistic kind, with such classes accorded 
fixed characteristics and roles in social emancipation.

Life is elsewhere.

P

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "grinker" <grinker at mweb.co.za>
To: "'debate: SA discussion list '" <debate at lists.kabissa.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 4:28 PM
Subject: [DEBATE] : Re: (Fwd) Cosatu not impressed with 'developmental 
state'


At the risk of incurring the wrath/derision of the Waterboy, how about this
hoary old quote from somebody else:

"It is self-evident that in the impending bloody conflicts, as in all
earlier ones, it is the workers who, in the main will have to win the
victory by their courage, determination and self-sacrifice. As previously so
also in this struggle, the mass of the petty bourgeois will as long as
possible remain hesitant, undecided and inactive, and then, as soon as the
issue has been decided, will seize the victory for themselves, will call
upon the workers to maintain tranquility and return to their work, will
guard against so-called excesses and bar the proletariat from the fruits of
victory."

-----Original Message-----
From: debate-bounces at lists.kabissa.org
[mailto:debate-bounces at lists.kabissa.org] On Behalf Of Peter van Heusden
Sent: 01 March 2007 04:54 PM
To: debate at wfeet.za.net:SA discussion list
Subject: [DEBATE] : Re: (Fwd) Cosatu not impressed with 'developmental
state'

Eh, can someone point me to an example of a "developmental state" that
is/was *not* developmental for capital?

Peter


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